Best belay device reddit And it says they sell them in a set of two Flycatcher ropes and this belay device. 7mm and 10. The Black Diamond ATC Belay Device. Sometimes, I clove in tight and belay off my rope tie in loop, sometimes I re-direct, occasionally I belay directly off the anchor. My comment was driven more by my tendency NOT to worry about subtle differences in things like belay devices. Feb 12, 2024 · In terms of the best belay device, the Petzl Grigri 2 is a no brainer. The GriGri + is a belay device best suited for very new climbers belaying on top rope. You're using a lot of absolutes. I'm curious about the safety differences between these devices. Editor’s Choice: Metolius Roll Up Stick Clip Kit ($225) NB: If you get to the top of the belay and you have to yank the webbing to make it retract fully, tell the staff. Many of the primary belay devices people have suggested look good for this purpose, I will be giving those a closer look - it would still be nice though, to find a backup that can work alongside the primary belay device - e. You need to learn how to belay with a class and test people on how to belay properly. By that I mean, I’m fine with someone who uses an ATC(they have their valid use cases such as twin ropes/ rappels etc- even then there is the mega jul and smart alpine), but if they get all The Grigri is the best IMO. The Pilot is simple, light, and perfect for what it does. The spring was added later and it was a PITA. Reply reply adeadhead There are other assisted tube style devices but IMO the megajul is the best because of its size/weight and its functions (assisted brake, ability to rap with two strands or belay on half ropes). learn the techniques to belay properly heavy climbers rather than rely on devices Right, screw belay devices, a good hip belay is still the best. The grigri is the most common, but also the most expensive option. It's called "assisted braking" but it really does Auto lock every time even if the belay Eric drops the break end and the leader falls the device will immediately catch the climber on its own. The most famous of these is the Grigri by Petzl. The only people that still argue for them are those that think there's some intangible greatness about belaying using a tube or plate or anything but an ABD. To me, a slot-type device is a slot-type device. I find myself reaching for the Grigri when i know my friends are going to top-dog 5. It's easier to do safety checks on a device that other climbers know. The screwgate snapped during the fall and went flying, we assume it was crossloaded at the least. Dave Fasulo (Author of the Falcon Self Rescue book) recommends using a grigri for this reason. The best belay device is the one you use correctly. Climbed with him again 3 months later. Sort of like top rope belaying, the grab and slide method. Good catch, it sure is advertised as being specifically for 6. I’ve had to basically reteach people how to belay properly that learned on a grigri without developing best practices (for any belay device) like always keeping your hand on the break strand. Dec 5, 2024 · The Petzl GriGri+ is the best active assisted-braking belay device for newer climbers and feels very familiar to anybody who has used a GriGri before. Salewa Ergo and that device never became popular anywhere. My gym requires that you have an assisted-breaking device to lead, so I purchased a Mammut Smart 2. lowering: you stay on belay, and the belayer lowers you down using his belaying device. He fucked up bad. I would assume that anyone who has a grigri hanging off their harness would know how to use it, but if they didn’t, it’s definitely on them to tell you that before they start belaying you with it. I have spoke to alot of people that say the ATC is best because it is simple, versatile and powerful and then they have some sort of accident and they come back saying 'I will never climb with anything but an auto locking belay device'. In defence of the belay master we use it when we're clipping kids into the rope for top roping for speed. Mammut Smart Alpine. Overall, the few extra dollars for a device with a top belay mode is worth it should you ever want to get into other things. From your own posts: took his hand off for a second bad belay, the end, device does not matter one bit. Posted by u/spartan-932954_UNSC - 1 vote and 45 comments This is the best answer. It offers several features that many will see as improvements over the standard GriGri, including an anti-panic handle and two different modes for top-rope and lead belaying. 5-11 mm. All that said I personally recommend having your first belay device be an ATC (or another brands tubular belay device) as it is a cheaper, simpler device and it helps instill better belay habits (you can’t get sucked into trusting the assisted braking mechanism as if it is an automatic braking system like some newer climbers do) As a first belay device. I do not know which specific devices were in use at the time, the gyms carry two models I believe. We prefer the beefier construction over the Mega Jul. Learn how to tie one (plenty of good youtube videos) with the device you plan to use (most commonly taught with an ATC, but works about the same with others) and you'll have a quick, secure way to block off a rappel and go hands free. There was very little info / reviews about the Crag Smart, and a bunch of good reviews for the DMM Belay Master, so I went with that. And yes we are scared of falling. Devices like the BD pilot/Elderid Jul/Mammut Smart are becoming more common too, and are less expensive. any help much appreciated! I would suggest getting an auto-locking belay device. Honestly I wouldn’t climb with someone who refuses to use one. It's really hard to choose a belay device without using it first, though. May 28, 2024 · Like its predecessor, the GriGri+ prevents rope slippage, allows you to haul, and belay with an assist without batting an eye. Click Ups are new and some people like them but they're probably about 1% of the belay devices being used out there with grigri's being probably like 60%. They all do the job and I don't really care what I'm using. There's also the Mammut Smart, and the Elderid Mega Jul. I would assume thinner ropes provide less friction in the device. I have a slightly different path where I do multipitch so I upgraded to a guide. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. The device is compatible with ropes measuring 8. Lowering is easier also the orientation of the belay loop for guide mode is 90° compared to the BD ATC wich orientates the rope either up or down on a anchor. OP wants to make sure he is belaying the best way possible after a year of doing it. 274 votes, 101 comments. 6 in a gym while watching me over their shoulder. They're super easy to learn, and use mostly the same "muscle memory" movements as any regular tube device. "Active assisted braking" is the primary reason people pick Petzl GriGri 2 over the competition. For the price, this device is a great value. How open minded and willing you are to adapt will dictate the ease of If weight is not an issue for you, I'd say this is one of the best overall belay devices you can get. I much prefer if my partner has an assisted braking device. I use what I think is best in the circumstance. GameStop Moderna Pfizer Johnson & Johnson AstraZeneca Walgreens Best Buy Novavax SpaceX Tesla. 1. Everyone who uses my ergo seems to enjoy it. Its a jack of all trades device, but certainly a master of none. So the best handling belay device would probably be the petzl reverso 2 (with the loop for autoblock mode), but it doesn't have any breaking capabilities when you're belaying the leader or using a toprope. Apr 29, 2024 · Still, climbing hardware continues to evolve, from refinements on classic gear like belay devices, to more-ergonomic iterations of staples like quickdraws, to more compact and lighter designs. Gloves only for aid or FA. Happened to me too. if you use an atc wrap the brake side under the device and pull it through the locker like it's an even more extreme lock off position then tie an overhand and then tie a mule to lock off the belay on the rope. Dmm pivot. You won't have a good feel for it Lol how is that at all close to the same thing? One is a completely outdated method. You can use it to belay with a standard tube belay device too as long as your belay loop fits in the snug bottom part. GriGri seems like a "safe" choice but stainless steel construction of Birdie could be more durable. ATC XPs are fairly common in my gym, it was also my first belay device. I will always bring a grigri OR a megajul. It’s important to mention that these kind of devices work best with dedicated belaying carabiner. There are alternatives that work perfectly fine for way cheaper than the grigri. Hopefully your partners will also have a set of draws. the pbus is taught because it's the proper way to belay with a tubular device. He pinched his hand in the ATC when we practiced a fall at the top of a route. A mule knot can securely tie off any style of belay/rappel device. Dec 13, 2023 · The Best Device for Rappelling The GriGris biggest hangup for Axel Kochendörfer, a Germany-based mountain rescuer, is its inability to offer a two-strand rappel. Here are the conclusions. . when used correctly an ATC is a time-tested, effective device. Plus it’s decently heavy; not a huge deal but worth thinking about if you have a long approach or are already carrying a ton of stuff. The ATC-Pilot is hands-down the best belay device I've ever used. Here is how Mammut recommends you belay with their figure 8 devices. 0 Belay Device’s assisted braking will give you a hand. Pretty much the best ATC style belay device there is. Dec 5, 2024 · The Giga Jul is the most versatile belay device on the market, by far. Similar to keeping bolt end and rope end biners on draws separate. While correct belay technique is essential, having the best belay device for your needs definitely helps. Even if your belay lets go of the ropes completely, you'll lower at a rate that isn't going to seriously hurt you. The new click up is new. The ATC doesn’t have this. Benefit of the ATC is it doubles as a rappel device and it’s much easier to use. This is nice because with the GriGri, the only time I'm really worried about a new climber making a mistake is during lowering. with other belay devices it's similar but for something semi-assisted like a grigri i'd just tie a Not over, but had a lead climber forget to take their atc with them after using it in guide mode for the followers a couple times. 0 mm rope diameters and I would wager that it performs better on the thinner end of the spectrum. ATC-XP Guide has an added ability to be used as an autoblock belay device if belaying second climber from above. It’s worth repeating that these are all capable belay devices. This device can connect directly to the harness (or anchor for a top down belay) without a carabiner passing through the two closed loop. It's nice for sport climbing, somewhat stiffer than the grigri but smoother than the Smart, it also doesn't block accidentally as fast as the smart does, but when it does, it's harder to unblock. Get an ATC and use that, learn to belay with that. The safeguard is so popular because it can be used like a prussic/ropeman1 and also allows you rappel down at anytime if something went wrong, instead of having to switch over to a separate device. If you do need to rap / belay, a thin rope is a double whammy since you get less friction from the device and it's harder to grip and apply friction to the break strand. Knowing how to belay with multiple devices is an asset. In practice, you have the climber's weight on you and the trick is to lock off the belay tight first, and then make a backup knot. Advantage: your partner gets to learn to belay in a safe manner that will transfer to other belay devices, unlike a GriGri or similar which requires device specific techniques. Better than a GriGri for TR solo since the rope runs almost straight through the device in the open position so if you put some weight on the end of the rope, you don't have to manually pull it through. All my climbing partners use one so it’s not really an issue that comes up. I might be buying this thing straight off. The GriGri can't belay two followers or rappel, and it's also expensive, with moving parts, which we don't like. Whether you are belaying a leader in assisted-brake mode, rappelling down long routes with two ropes, or belaying a follower from above, this device performs every task that a belay device is ever asked to do. I'd still say the grigri is better for safety since the smart wont always lock up(if the biner gets turned around when you're belaying), but overall, since it can do everything, it is an awesome device. Please keep in mind though, that any of these brake assisted belay devices will require you to alter your belay technique somewhat to adapt to the device's design and characteristics to use it properly. you are attached to the rope with a knot. I actually think they are putting themselves at risk of litigation by requiring older technology. Belayer was my best friend, and had always been a solid belay. I learned to lead belay when someone handed me a rope, said "you know what you're doing", and setoff up a 5. This thing looks rad. To me the optimal use case has been in the gym; there is an angle range that works best for the rope to enter and leave the device, and outside it’s often a lot more difficult to control and keep an eye on it. Below, you’ll find the best climbing hardware available in 2024. Know the belay setup, how to tie in, and checks Must use a tube style belay device for the test (no assisted braking devices until after you have passed the test) Must be able to catch one unannounced fall from your climber The test itself is free. The Grigri, Smart, Click Up, and Mega Jul are all going to be better devices. Mar 16, 2011 · For long-suffering belay slaves, the assisted-braking belay device has been one of the most welcome gear innovations of the last two decades. Also, it's available on Expert Voice for $80 and is hands down the best bang for the buck. The optional class is $30-$60 (but comes with a temporary membership) I settled on the Dome earlier this year after a bunch of research. Great for going down, a bit inconvenient as a belay device (bight through the small end) but it works. Belay devices that aren't GriGri's aren't outdated. In the second instance, it happened yesterday and I've been told they removed the faulty device and will also send it for inspection to the vendor. My personal mental training tells me, no matter what belay device I'm using, clamping down with my right hand will arrest a fall. , Wild Country SRC) to apply braking force to a rope As I saw it there were 2 pretty good locking hms biners with crossload protection: the Mammut Crag Smart HMS (made specifically for the smart belay device), and the DMM Belay Master 2. A prusik sling for a chalkbag belt is a good idea, the minitrax is redundant. The home of Climbing on reddit. A Reverso and ATC-Guide will be oriented the same way on an anchor in guide mode, they're essentially the same device. It's just the facts. Sure, it may not be as good as the specific devices, but having just one device that does everything reasonable well makes up for the learning curve or clunkiness. I use Jul2 indoors and outdoors on sport single pitch climbs. One belay device and an extra locker is plenty. Most devices (except possibly the Pivot) don't lower well in guide mode I am quite light (~55 kg) and frequently belay people heavier than I am. ATC. A simple overhand with a biner might be OK, but it will slip through until tight and be difficult to loosen later. The grigri group generally needed more reminders to keep their brake hand on the rope and to pay attention to what was going on. 0 or the Black Diamond ATC Pilot. Sep 20, 2021 · There is nothing quite like the bond formed between climber and belayer. 8 is right at the lower end for the ATC XP so you'll have minimal friction plus in a mountaineering situation you'll probably be wearing gloves which will make it even harder We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. Yes, this is a bad belayer all around. They specifically caution against using any other configuration. Using a grigri as your belay device greatly simplifies a number of self-rescue scenarios. Note that climbers generally extend the rappel device about 12 inches off their belay loops with either a PAS or a knotted sling so that the autoblock can’t bump into the belay device and keep It from grabbing (same idea as a prussic minded pulley for rescues). the gri gri really adds a lot of weight - too much imo if you're doing class 3 However, habits like these lead to pretty terrible belay technique that increases the chances of fucking up when you’re not using a grigri. I love this device, it’s light, small, ergonomically designed and intuitive if you’ve used ATC before. Mago 8 and Scream are your best choices if you are going to be doing this often. Mostly indoor and single pitch outdoor. Spare 'biner for a munter hitch is a better backup rappel strategy rather than having a spare 8 floating round. My final note would be, if you’re a pre-2009 Grigri user, to not go back and forth between the two devices, to avoid the belay confusion described above. Long days at the crag can mean belaying fatigue. The only oddball device that I can think of is the MegaJul, which still orients the same way, but the ropes load from the bottom, not the top. If you already own an ATC just learn how to use it, it’s a fine device. Grigris can encourage lazy, and poor belay habits. If you have any of them, there’s no need to throw it away for something else. FWIW I use my grigri for almost everything and I usually don't carry a second device. I've encountered this fairly often, especially when climbing with new partners. My first and primary belay device since I've started has been the mega Jul. 7. (You can also compare the GriGri and ATC to other top belay devices in our belay device buying guide. The safest belay devices would be stuff like the grigri or trango cinch, but they sacrifice handling. Jul 29, 2024 · In a lead-belay scenario, he imagines the Neox will also be a better option for left-handed climbers, who can adopt traditional ATC rope-feeding tactics. That way there is no muscle memory issues going back and forth from auto-lockers to tubular devices to a munter hitch. Jul 11, 2024 · Almost 100% of the time, the best setup for this sort of belay is an auto-blocking tube device secured to the anchor in guide mode. My options are Petzl GriGri (3) & Beal Birdie. ) i own a figure 8, gri gri, megajul, smart alpine, atc and assisted atc. They either use moving parts (e. Thankfully, the Mammut Smart 2. Top rope is where a GriGri really stands out. Beginner climber (a few years it a very low frequency, 5. This device would then be the main device to catch a fall while I could still easily descend with the cinch or reconfigure the setup to jumar up if I can't climb the section. When I am lowering someone, I leave one hand on the brake strand near(-ish) the device and use the other to grab the rope low and open my brake hand just a bit and start feeding rope. GriGri's are great and all but that doesn't make every other devices obsolete. Here is how Black Diamond recommends you belay with their super 8 See my comment below, TL;DR- the recalls were because the original devices were built for safety backups to be used in construction and industrial venues, where they might catch a fall every year or two, and were built for a max of a few hundred falls a year, but were repurposed for gym use, where there thousands of falls per month. Lightweight, rugged and auto locking, this thing is build to for anything. 3mm. A nice time saving trick if youre swinging leads is to swap belay devices every pitch. Also, I know that self-belay ALONE is inherently risky, if you get your ass stuck, or knocked out and hanging from a rope, there's no one to help you. This means that, in this configuration, it relies on a push button, an internal safety that won't allow it to unlock when cammed and Once someone has been belay certified on top rope and auto belay, staff do not check every person once they leave the ground… that would be intense and I guarantee that climbers would hate it. The SSS was invented for the munter hitch years ago before the plate belay devices were invented and after the hip belay fell out of fashion. Rather, the staff walk around and pay attention to belay technique, watch the cameras etc to make sure everyone is doing things properly. she needs to use another locking carabiner for her belay device. I can top rope with a braking device, lead belay, and rappel with two strands from a singular device When I belay someone, I don't need to move my hand above perpendicular to the belay device at any time. Originally there was no spring on those. 0. The Trango Cinch is Trango's old assisted belay device. There's a ton of devices to use to get out of the tree: Figure 8, ATC, Belay devices, and you can always just rappel using a munter hitch. the best one by a large margin is the megajul and smart alpine. On my harness while climbing most multipitch routes I have a belay/rap device, an extra sling with a locker, and a couple extra biners. The ATC Guide (specifically the guide), when set up correctly, is an "auto-blocking" (not to be confused with "auto-locking") belay device for belaying a second. the smart alpine is also comparable - auto lock but the longer lever means easier feeding but more weight. Its just more expensive than the other devices. What’s cool and new to 2024 in the climbing world in regards to gear and tech? Looking for ideas for a birthday present for someone who has a vast and well built collection of gear, but likes to upgrade to reflect best practices. It functions just like a GriGri, but it has a panic handle. Look dude, when it comes down to it, a grigri is just a fancy tubular device, they can and have failed; bad belay technique with a grigri is just as dangerous as it is with a tubular device. May 20, 2020 · The Gridlock is an innovative carabiner that is designed primarily to stop the orientation of the carabiner switching. Don't listen to any of these gumbies talking about how the grigri is better. At a Glance. If we do our job correctly, by the end of this article, you’ll know which belay device is best for you. Between these two devices, which do you prefer? On the matter of fixed-point belay, guides from AMGA, IFMGA, ACMG (Canadian), ENSA (French guide school) and DAV (German) has recommended munter hitch or tube style device, and recommended against the use of Grigri bc of less rope slippage, and potential increased force on the top placement. 1–10. Sometimes at the gym, I see these belayers who leaves their belay hand way on top of the rope. There isn't anything on the market that remotely comes close to the ease of use for lead belay. Like most people said, it can be awkward to learn but once you do it is amazing. Also its good to have a device that both parties are familiar with when multi-pitch climbing if swinging leads, and the megajul is not intuitive in it’s top belay mode. Also need some gear to top out like cows tails, extra locking biners, and belay biners as well. If the price difference is not issue just get the guide, it'll weight few grams more and you might never use that autoblock feature, but if you do you don't have to buy second belay device then, those things last forever. Neither of them. com Apr 27, 2021 · Here are the best belay devices: Petzl GriGri 2; Black Diamond ATC-Guide; Edelrid Mega Jul; Petzl GriGri + Petzl Reverso; Black Diamond ATC-XP; How to Choose the Best Belay Device for Your Needs. Keep in mind, there is a learning curve to Grigris (and most assisted braking devices, but Grigris and similar especially). g. Allows for two ropes, so you can rap normally without having to block your rope. Also, it helps that I don't OWN a gri-gri. Sounds like its the best belay device in the world as long as your only using those ropes. 6 at the gym a dozen times or for use as a backup self belay device to quickly switch over to rappel. While the ATC easily accommodates two rope strands for belays, the GriGri requires a bit more finesse to handle such an environment. A new small rope will always be fast, those are treated to be more durable so they’re a bit shiny? Anyway it’ll just lower really fast. Inattention is more dangerous than improper belay technique, for example the belay is chatting up a cute girl while the climber is running out a bunch of slack. I wouldn't choose to use one of the other devices unless I had double ropes. The Black Diamond Air Traffic Controller, or ATC for short, is Black Diamond’s flagship belay How to choose the best belay device? I have asked myself that question and made a video with recommendations on which belay devices are best for which purposes comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Add a Comment Nov 11, 2023 · Petzl GriGri 2, Edelrid Mega Jul Sport, and DMM Pivot are probably your best bets out of the 22 options considered. This is #1 for me. Salewa also made belay plates with single slots, two 9 slots, and two 11 slots. Not carabiner sensitive, reliable, bomber, tens of thousands in use over decades. Sep 15, 2020 · Belay devices drop up and down during belaying and can often become cross-loaded. There was a beginner in the gym tonight who put the daisy chain through the same locking carabiner as her belay device. Keep reading to learn about the Grigri vs. The sling extends the belay device above the back-up knot. Sold it, bought an atc guide, never looked back. I am wondering if I need to purchase a specific belay carabiner to use with it. Of the newer assisted locking devices the Alpine Up seems to be the crowd favorite on Mountain Project these days, but it's the same size/weight as a Grigri. I've taught people how to toprope belay on the ground, and after a handful of run through done the same. What this means is that if your second/follower falls, the rope will bind in the device on its own. There's no arguing around the fact that an assisted braking device is going to be a safer belay device than a tube. When they go they take your belay device with them. No one has a really good feel for how it will last and wear. Best Belay Carabiner Extra Features To head off any saftey related head explosions, I have since read that self-belay with a gri-gri is a horrible idea, so I haven't been doing it. The GriGri+ also comes with an anti-panic feature to support new belayers that have a tendency to open the handle all of the way, leading to an uncontrolled descent, leaving you looking like a rookie on the wall. Grigris are very common so an obvious choice, and they’re versatile if you get into outdoor and multipitch climbing for top belaying and even rappelling. anyway. Weighing less than 10oz and holding up to 4KN (4000 kg), the Epic Peak Rescue Figure 8 Descender is your one stop shop multi-functional descender. Whether you are a gym climber, trad climber, sport climber, alpine climber or I've mainly used GriGri devices for belaying, as that's what my gym provides. for when I climb with a belayer who is more comfortable with a specific device, that doesn't automatically provide this There's a little bit of a learning curve but graphics on the device make it easy to check. I now had the idea to replace the prusik by a ct rollnlock or a petzl microtraxion tied into the belay loop and held up by a rubber cord in the chest harness. lighter than an atc, locks like a gri gri, can rapel like an atc. Many belay-specific carabiners have different ways of preventing this. I eventually bought a steel oval for my grigri after I got bored of replacing belay biners every year. You are mostly passive rappeling: you slide down along the rope, using your rappelling device (same as a belaying device, but used differently), the belayer is not involved, you are the active party. Dec 5, 2024 · The Neox might be the best belay device for lead climbing and single-pitch climbing, but the similar Petzl GriGri is more versatile and remains our favorite overall belay device for its versatility. Belayer fortunately held the brake strand and managed to control it well enough to prevent the fall, not sure how exactly. I have tried the double carabiner trick, and in my experience it does not offer adequate additional friction with skinny ropes like this. Others include the Beal Birdie, 100% incorrect. Might as well invest in a slightly more expensive guide-style device (BD ATC Guide, Petzl Reverso, Grivel Belay Master Pro, etc. The best device for you is the one you know how to use the best. Aug 13, 2024 · Every assisted belay device has compromises, but the Pinch has the correct alchemy of characteristics for me. If it’s more for occasional scrambling, then I would go with a super munter. Absolutely love it, best device on the market IMO Has the assisted braking feature of a GriGri but at a fraction of the weight. I carry a Petzl Reverso 4 and a GriGri 2 mostly when I go out. ATCs make better belayers, even when you switch over to a grigri. Gyms usually have the top-ropes doubled around the anchor. The Cinch was actually the best belay device I've ever used in terms of ease of feeding rope but it's fault was that it was too small and awkward to hold. However, I've noticed that some climbers prefer using ATCs or Mammut devices, arguing they're safer and less prone to mechanical failure. As well as my gym has all pre placed quickdraws, should I purchase a set and if so how many (6 or 12?) Start with 6. Aug 6, 2021 · To put these devices to the test so I could shed insight on these questions, I climbed up all kinds of single pitch and multipitch climbs, indoor and outdoor, trad and sport, long and short. It's the best all in one brake assisted belay device I've used so far. a locker attached to the mule loop and around the rope gives extra security. There is a reasonable chance that a figure 8 can break the carabiner it is clipped into if it is not kept under tension at all times. No details where it failed (within sight or at the attachment point within the device, no idea). My Petzl reverso works for rappelling with it if I use two carabiners (as Petzl recommends), but I know Mammut used to make a figure of 8 specifically for thin ropes. needs to be taut so that she can't get lifted and 2. For belay devices, I am between the ATC XP and the ATC Pilot: The OP needs the safest device in this situation not the lightest or the simplest. As a belayer, your partner trusts you to catch them when they fall and get them back to the ground safely once they’ve finished a route. In general, a large, rounded, and smooth carabiner without any snag points doesn’t cross load much – but some are designed so it never happens. It has been the standard for 25 years. That's true, and I'm not the paragon of safety, admittedly. I can think of a few scenarios indoors and even more outdoors where its useful to be able to tie off the belay device around the karabiner which isn't possible at all with the belay master. When I teach people to belay I always have them learn on an ATC as I’ve seen too many climbers depending on the assisted braking of other devices, leading them to do unsafe things like take their hands off the brake strand without tying off the belay. Another climber ran to their aid and attached another belay device on the brake strand to lower the climber. 3a) From the bottom, I belay off my belay loop with the ATC and two carabiners O&O 3b) From the top, it depends on the situation and belay stance/anchors. My advice is: Get a mammut smart, a petzl grigri, a beal birdie or whatever other assisted belay device you can find because with them you will be able to use with any carabiner and virtually any type of rope (8mm to 11mm) in any condition (Old or New) without having to worry if the device will actually work. Posted by u/Cragcloud - 7 votes and 11 comments Posted by u/IT-Command - 2 votes and 58 comments In these situations if the grigri cannot be repositioned it is better to use a redirected belay from the harness. Good question. A Grigri is a belay device that comes with an assisted break feature, meaning if your BF accidentally lets go of the rope while belaying the device will catch (stopping the rope and preventing the climber from falling). The Petzl GriGri+ adds security for beginner climbers with an “ anti-panic ” lever that stops the lowering mechanism if the lever is pulled too Points 1 & 3 are wrong. Feature wise it has it all, double belay loops, 7 gear loops, tons of padding and very comfortable after a long day. Several of them (Edelrid's Giga Jul / Mega Jul / Micro Jul, and Mammut's Smart Alpine) are two-stranded, and work great for rappels and two-rope belays. The grigri is over hyped. Probably because they learned how to belay without the idea in their heads that the belay device would catch the climber if they were either sloppy or not paying attention. 3M subscribers in the climbing community. Leave the guide mode device on as a personal anchor, grab your second's belay device off their harness an thro them on lead belay. The Mega Jul is best for rappelling, however overall for a singular device to take outside, the Mega Jul is best. Both belay devices should be fine over time you’ll get used to the belay difference… If you really want it to feel different you could try an ATC Alpine… but their intended use is 8. But while climbing in the gym I use a 10mm rope. A friend owns one and I have used it a couple of times. Even if you decide to stick to single pitch stuff, it's far A Figure 8 is no longer considered to be suitable for use as a belay device by most, but to be used only for descending. Frozen ropes? Twin ropes. The GigaJule is assisted belay when he wants, standard tuber when he doesn’t, doesn’t freeze up, can be used for positioning on a fixed rope for top rope anchors, and as a progress capture device/ guide mode belay device. As you can see, the configuration is essentially the same between rappelling and belaying, the only difference being again, one rope or two. This page is powered by a knowledgeable community that helps you make an informed decision. Crypto That's a ridiculous reason. Business, Economics, and Finance. It is the belayer, not the belay device, that matters. , Petzl Grigri 2) or the geometry of the device (e. Guide mode works great, no issues on multipitch. I love using some sort of ATC for lead belay personally. For example, you'd still able to belay if you forget your preferred lefty device, or if someone hands you one because they prefer to be belayed with it. It works without any extra mechanical parts and you can just open and close the carabiner as normal. I fell 45 feet and broke my back in 7 places. The belay is more ergonomic and less constraining since the device is not attached to the belayer’s harness , and when the climber falls or weights the rope, the climber strand locks down on the brake strand and I would advocate for learning on the Jul2 - if you can lead belay using a Jul2, you should be able to lead belay using any tubular style device, should the need ever arise. I've recently got the Petzl Rad line to try out as a glacier travel and rappelling rope for ski mountaineering. Dec 22, 2022 · However, which device is best for you is much less clear. I also think it’s more intuitive to understand the mechanics involved in belaying with a tube style device (although since you’re already familiar with TR lead belaying Asking someone to belay you with a grigri is totally fine. 5mm ropes. The best and simplist method for top rope self belay BY FAR is to tie in on one end of the top rope and thread the other end through a grigri. Saftey considerations: The lever of a gri gri is on the left side of the device therefore the grigri must be on the left side of your tie-in figure 8 knot. If the grooves are too wide, the rope can twist and pinch in guide mode, or worse, actually change position and not lock at all. The grigri is not the only belay device out there. The device should work well for lead belaying. All of these devices are less than half the cost & weight of a GriGri. No, I don't have one. Essentially, Petzl has said the Neox is a specialized belay device for single pitch use, not a replacement for Gri Gri in all use cases. Sep 21, 2023 · In 2019, Petzl released the newest version, and we think it’s the best overall belay device available in 2024. Might have to pass the belay device off to someone else, might not have experience with a new semi-complicated belay device, might have concerns about belay device functioning properly, rope size issues, weight, simplicity. I am ready to re-learn lead climbing again, after 2 years of only top roping. Hi all! I'm about to buy a new assisted braking belay device mainly for lead climbing. theres a reason why people STILL get dropped with grigris all the time right, dumbasses! I actually agree with just about everything you said, just not your wording. In my opinion best of geometric assisted devices on the market right now. I am thinking of purchasing an assisted braking belay device - either the Mammut Smart 2. You’re not at a disadvantage per se. That's what my belay device did the whole time I knew it before the fatal fall and I assume that had something to do with its failure (edited to reframe in answer of original post! thanks for giving me this space to air my grievances!) A new Grigri like device from Edelrid with an interesting extra feature or two, but one in particular that makes me nervous. 9mm diameter twin ropes like the Flycatcher. See full list on outdoorgearlab. Follower has a nut tool, maybe a water bottle. I told her that 1. Admittedly, it also handles most closely to a GRIGRI, and adopted familiarity is a big Sep 14, 2020 · The best belay device for beginners is the one you feel safe and confident using. In ice climbing and trad climbing using double ropes is the norm and requires a tube style. This is important because if the Prusik loop gets drawn into the belay device it can get jammed, making it impossible to move up or down the rope, or it can actually prevent the Prusik from jamming and so rendering the back-up useless. Otherwise just get an Grigri and quit sucking the dicks of the safety brigade. My current gym now requires any type of auto locking device because humans make mistakes and get complacent. ) now so that you don't buy the Pilot or XP, and when you decide to do multi pitch (or climb with twin/half ropes), you have to then purchase a second device. 5mm, pairs well with any HMS locking carabiner, and lowers smoothly and securely even when it’s the 20th lowering of the day. The grigri can put notches in the narrow end, which you then don't want abrading your belay loop when you're using an ATC. The german alpine club thinks the Ergo is the best device more or less. The guide that I was talking to the other day, he guides ice and rock, goes out with a GigaJule and a Kong Gigi placket. A standard first belay device would be a tube. On Edelrid's website, they state that it's designed for 7. So they're less than ideal for a first device. Many still learn on tubes with no problem. If it doesn't rappel well, it won't lead belay well. IMO if you want to buy the best once, buy a grigri. Both of those devices have a similar belay motion to an ATC, and they are cheaper than a grigri. Most belay devices should have information on the intended rope size so I would double check that your rope fits. It also takes rope diameters down to 7. It's built for ropes between 8. I like the assisted breaking and it makes me feel a bit safer as a belayer if something were to happen (rock fall, for example), b Standard Grigri. 10 top rope range, looking to lead in due time) looking for some advice on purchasing a belay device and carabiner. I find I primarily belay with the GriGri now, there is a bit of a learning curve to belay a leader, but once you have it down it's just as easy as any other device. Unlike traditional tube-style devices, these gizmos actually help the belayer hold a falling or hanging climber. upfj hrjvhk xwwzd nmllc bsay abzkubfc kdzrz satesk csvvvco mwj nju mxgxa vspfrht ynk ywoi